Black women and marriage – Who will tell the truth?
It is easier to cast black women as undesirable – too educated, too black, too … you know those names you keep calling them. But have you ever stopped to analyze the stats? Generally, marriage in the US has considerably dropped for every race … not just for the black woman.
The marriage rate for African Americans has been dropping since the 1960s, and today, we have the lowest marriage rate of any racial group in the United States. In 2001, according to the U.S. Census, 43.3 percent of black men and 41.9 percent of black women in America had never been married, in contrast to 27.4 percent and 20.7 percent respectively for whites. African American women are the least likely in our society to marry. In the period between 1970 and 2001, the overall marriage rate in the United States declined by 17 percent; but for blacks, it fell by 34 percent …
So I guess its safe to say that we are all doomed. Lemme look at this critically:
Find your soulmate on AfroRomance
When I look around, I get to see most black women are single … not alone though. Just single. There is a difference. These women are healthy and wealthy and have boyfriends, friends with benefits, partners or whatever you would like to call them. But when it comes to walking down the aisle, there seems to be an issue … especially for the high-powered, financially stable, well educated black women. Something is holding her back maybe …
May be in the 21st century, most sisters are battling with the thoughts for or against getting married. Maybe circumstances have put marriage out of reach. And as Baz Luhrman puts it in is free (to wear sunscreen)' :
Maybe you’ll marry, maybe you won’t,
Maybe you’ll have children, maybe you won’t,
Maybe you’ll divorce at 40,
Maybe you’ll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary…
What ever you do, don’t congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself either
– your choices are half chance, so are everybody else’s.
So just because your race's stats look much better, or just because you got married, maybe its just luck. I don't know. Take me for example: When I was in my 20s, I was in no hurry to get married. I mean, who was to do all the travelling, take classes, build my career, date and date and date…? Those were the days when being single was the life and I wouldn’t trade it for the world. It was a choice I had made; not to wait for Prince Charming. Now, I do want to get married. And I just can't seem to get all those men who used to propose to me in my 20s - when I was least interested - to do it now. Maybe the choice to get married is half chance after all.
Forgetting the stereotypical excuses we coin to try and explain why most black women aren’t married; like lack of good black men, black women are too picky or too mean, I need to find out exactly what the black woman thinks about marriage … from her point of view. Others are also welcome to tell us what they think, but count me out if you step on a sista’s toes ;-) .
Instead of saying black women can’t get married, maybe we should ask: Do black women really want to get married? Are the single ones single by choice or is the choice to get married really ‘half chance’ as Baz Luhrman puts it?
***HAVE A GREAT 2009 FILLED WITH MUCH LOVE AND HAPPINESS - RIA***
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270 responses to "Black women and marriage – Who will tell the truth?"
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nandi says:Posted: 10 Aug 09Good post Shotgun 007 and I agree with Mira's post as well. I really detest these types of skewed logic debates because clearly the institution of marriage has suffered over the years. Although, I was born in the USA my parents are from the West Indies, and in Jamaica (well no matter if you are Chinese, Latino etc..you are either Jamaican or a foreigner). So interracially dating as it is called in the USA is no big deal in Jamaica, since you would be marrying another Jamaican so to speak. So, even if I did not (for example only) marry a White male here, I would pull from my own West Indian cultural background and that too could be White, Black, Chinese etc.... So, I really do not get the big hoopla on some of these blog articles. I believe more and more African-American women should date and marry and explore their options, afterall human beings are human beings. But, I do have my preferences like human beings and adults have as well. I only have one girlfriend who is in a same race relationships.
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Shotgun007 says:Posted: 03 Aug 09About 13 out of 16 of my closest black girlfriends and sorors are married. Most to black men and a few interracial marriages. Yes, we still have single black women, but is it just an issue with black women? I have 4 single white female friends, never been married and 2 of which aren't thinking about it. For those women that are seeking marriage, we do need to try dating across interracial lines. I say this with passion because limitations can cost you your soul mate. The statistics that Salsassin referenced might be true from a statistical standpoint, but again finding a partner for life goes back to opening "oneself" up to all possibilities. Shotgun007
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Miri2008 says:Posted: 16 Jun 09
Wow! What an intense and interesting blog! Kudos to the contributor with the stats. I thought that was great. A few facts are always a good addition to any discussion... LOL There were a great deal of thoughtful contributions. I must say that I was incredibly impressed to see the reference citation! (not kidding). Anyway, I will contribute my little 2 cents at the bottom here :) First off, I think a huge number of black women who aren't, WOULD like to be in a committed relationship with mutual compatibility, respect, etc... I don't think many people are simply making a CHOICE to continue on a merry go round of 'Mr. almost', 'Mr. oh-no', 'Mr. you got to be kidding', 'Mr. WHAT?', 'Mr. did not see THAT coming', and on and on... So, what is going on? Many previous bloggers have hit on a number of contributing factors. My own experience has been that: a) I have ALWAYS been open to dating outside my race. Until very, very recent times I had not seen any behavior from anyone outside of my race that would lead me to believe that anyone outside of my race was interested in me in any way that could lead to something serious. b) Then, it seems to me (note, before you write and beat me up, I said "it SEEMS to ME) that a woman being materially comfortable sparks one of two responses in a man who has less materially: i) His (natural) male instincts of being the hunter/provider is violated, he is uncomfortable, and either tries very, very hard to catch up with the woman materially, or he gives up and tries to pull the woman down because he feels unable to catch up to her; OR ii) His (natural) male instincts of being the hunter/provider is not functioning, and he settles down happily to enjoy the ride :) This is my reason for trying to stay within a commonly shared socio-economic status (note: this is my head talking - I have had my heart kick in and 'poof'... lol) I stuck with my individual experience and perspective to make a point. Black women are not a vat, basket, pot, container, crate, barrel, of some undifferentiated 'stuff'. We are individual people with divergent perspectives, experiences, and yes, even histories (a topic for another blog). There is an alarming tendency to simplify things to give ourselves the illusion of 'control' that the feeling of having 'comprehended' or 'solved' something can bring. The truth is that we are on an evolving journey which is moving faster than stats can be collected, and is more meandering than can be casually observed. So maybe we just accept that we are all in this amazing experience called life, with a myriad of possibilities still to be explored. Maybe an encouraging blog about sisters who found someone to share life with is in order. Enough with the dire proclamations of blight upon black women. I personally reject all of that negativity with a vengeance. I was married, and now I'm not. My experience was not peculiar to my race or my gender. When the time is right, I will be married again, and that experience will not be peculiar to my race or my gender. Peace, Miri
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Coldestwoman says:Posted: 24 Apr 09
I believe whole heartly that we black women aren't getting married by choice. I've been asked several times to marry a few men. I never wanted to marry these me. Once I got to know their personality, I knew I wasn't in it for the long hall. I would find out something about him that I didn't like: His momma runnin his life or He got major anger issues or He really don't like kids the way he said he did. My mistake was continuing to stay in the relationship for the sake of their feelings and ego. I won't do it for anybody else.....but myself at this point and I'm so happy this way
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homesteader says:Posted: 13 Apr 09
My wife is Black as to how others see the race issue , a Brown skinned female to me . I know she is the Most Beautiful Ladie in my world and We Love each other
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REDRAIN says:Posted: 11 Apr 09
The truth is, society thinks black women are ugly and undesirable and so most people hate us and do not want to be with us.
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sexygal74 says:Posted: 08 Apr 09
I am a single black female who is very independent and college educated. I do agree that dating haven't very easy for me. I was in a dating relationship with a white guy for two years until it was over two years ago. He dumped me two times to be with the same white woman. He told me that he didn't have the feelings for me when it come to dating or serious commitment. He said that most white women are more family-orientated than black women. I told him that it was his loss. He did end up marrying that white female after six months of dating her. He got his karma back when his white wife turned out to be more worse than me. I heard that some white women can be very bossy and controlling. Some white men will not marry or breed with a black female because of society. They would marry a white female who can be very demanding too. I do remember a black guy telling me that I am too skinny for him and too smart for him. Some black men can't deal with a smart black female who will not put up with their crap. Some black women are not very demanding and got a high standard. Some whtie women can be very demanding and materialistic. I know that I can be a good girlfriend or wife to any guys if they give me a chance. I do not have a high standard. I just want some appreciation and respect that most white women are getting. Some of the guys (black and white) have told me that I am asking for too much when they have no problems giving it to a white women. I feel that most white women are getting the appreciation and respect than black women.
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homesteader says:Posted: 07 Apr 09
NOPLAYER ; You say alot of Good things in your conversations . Yes , Life is a Fantasy trip for Us All / there are No guarantees . I only have one difference of opinion at the present time with you . That is the Fact that one is not able to Find Love . It is a Quality of Life that Grows between people who Desire to Earn the right to make it Happen for them . My wife and I meet here and after talking on the telephone and online for about a month . I asked her if she would grant me the Honor of being My Wife . Which she agreed with . At my age and after being called Senile at another Blog by a Lawyer who imagines himself to be a Doctor of Psychiatric Medicine and never examining his Patient in person shows his Personal Lack of Intelligence in Life / to establish a Practice with Lack of proper Certification in my eyes would have to be against the Law . Or as I have heard in the past - Just another Quack / see Imposter LOL ; The truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth , counsellor if you Please , Thank you . It also shows how people will spend their Lives in a Fantasy World of their own Making full of Smoke and Hot Air with a Serious Lack of Knowledge of which they speak . Hehe . As My own University Educated Daughters have told me that " I raised them Right . " I realize the Quality of my proper Parental Guidance in the Lifes of others .
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 07 Apr 09LOL, Dawnshyne I'm glad someone understands, it's good to know I'm not crazy! LOL My friend, why the strong words like resentment and anger? fustration is more like it! You have to understand why men get fustrated and say to hell with it, because at times it seems that matter what they do, they still miss the mark! Despite what women are told as little girls and what society opinions are, you still have to accept the reality that nobody likes rejection but it's a part of life and you have to deal with it and not let it deal with you. I tell my oldest daughter, yes you're beautiful but that doesn't mean you wont face rejection. I've never filled her head with this foolishness about Prince Charming and all that. It's no wonder people have a hard time dealing with reality, hell they're living in a fantasy world. I think alot of women are so fustrated that they give into one or two extremes, either they give up on the hope of finding love or they foolishly fall head over heels for anything that looks like love. Here's the balance? This lack of balance could affect the vibes that women give off and if a man picks up the wrong vibe from a women, he'll back off or he'll avoid you all together.
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Dawnshyne says:Posted: 07 Apr 09Ummm, wow, touch a nerve? And yes woman, generally, are that vain, lol. Although to be fair, I wouldn't call it vanity. Think about it, we are told from the time we leave the womb what little princesses we are. We are told that Prince Charming is going to come and sweep us off our feet. We are told how beautiful we are and how ANY man would be lucky to have us. Then the years start rolling by and you haven't been crowned, swept or met that lucky man. Not only that we have about 15 good years from marketable age to the end to procreate; so then we start talking to ourselves (I did this and yes, I am willing to admit it. The truth will set u free, at least it did me.) We start telling ourselves that okay Prince Charming hasn't come but I bet if I work hard enough I can turn him into a reasonable facsimile. And maybe he doesn't have to sweep me off my feet; maybe if we brushes them off every once in a while it will be enough....it happens. I understand where your anger, confusion and resentment come from (and oh boy, I got all those things from your post, ;-)). It's not fair of us to rationalize love and commitment and make you what we want to be. It's not fair and it doesn't work. If we were in our sane mind (again I am not omitting myself) then no; none of this would ever occur. You would have your set of standards and we would have ours and if they didn't mesh; then cool. Unfortunately our set of standards are met with society opinions (you are how old and you've never been married); nature (tick, tock, tick, brrrrr); our own upbringing (daddy can't wait to walk me down the isle) and whatever else is blowing in the wind. Again it ain't right; and some of us realize what the hell we are doing (in my case did) and run just as fast as our long legs will carry us. Some of us don't and get married, have babies and get divorced....its the real world and no, our not being right for one guy SHOULDN'T affect our psyche or self-esteem but the honest to goodness truth is that it does. Oh when we get smart enough to realize what's going on, we appreciate it but 30 some-odd years of programming is hard to overcome just because you or Steve Harvey tell us to. *wink* Still love ya like a play cuzzin!
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 06 Apr 09
Dawnshyne you're right when it comes down to it as men we know who we what. I think women at times internalize a man's not wanting her and she starts to take it too personal. I have expericed this on more than a few occasions were I've tried to be honest about my true feelings for a woman only to get trashed by her when my feelings didn't fall in line with what see wanted. I'm saying to myself, "what what fu$k", where did that could from! You hear it all day longfrom blk women, "just keep it real with me, be a man about it, say what you mean and mean what you say" but no sooner than you do, they'll swear up and down you're a fake or you're playing games. It's like damned if you do & damed if you don't! I thought that you date or court eachother to get a feel for eachother and to see if the two of you should persue the relationship further. If one deems that the other is not the right one for them, then it's no crime to let it go and move on. In truth I only want you if you feel in your heart I'm the one for you, anything less is phony. You're doing me a favor by telling if I'm not the one because if we went on with the relationship and got married, time would reveal the truth. The cost of a few dates is a hell of a lot cheaper than a divorce! I wish more women understood that, it's not only about them, it's about what's best for the other person. He should have what he feel is the best for him, men don't feel they should accept any woman just for the sake of having a woman. Somebody please tell me that women are not that vain!!!!!! I feel that just because we didn't make it together romanticaly you are still my sister and I want you to have the best and because I trully love you, I can let you go to follow your heart, would it be asking too much for a woman to feel the same way? Just because you're not THE ONE doesn't mean you're not A SPECIAL SOMEONE. Think about it!
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Dawnshyne says:Posted: 06 Apr 09
I like your grand, NOPlayer. She speaks of wisdom. We women are hard-headed. We know the gratitude we feel when someone does something nice for us and we think that by doing that for a man, it will get him to see us differently. WRONG. Men are decidedly simple; either he wants you or he doesn't. This is a tough concept for us (note I am not excusing myself from this generalization). That thinking is completely foreign to our mode of thought. Hopefully one day all of us will gain the amount of self-respect it takes to hold ourselves with dignity. You must first think highly of yourself before a man thinks of you at all.
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homesteader says:Posted: 06 Apr 09
Women ; GIVE THEM A GLASS OF WATER TO MAKE IT DOWN THE ROAD , as never want anyone to be thirsty. Grade A milk should only be given after marriage and 22 OUNCE T-BONE steaks are best medium well , with two eggs over easy . 2 Responsible Adults are Needed for a child to grow to be self-sufficient in their Adult lives .
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 06 Apr 09
@ Jazie you were not wrong in doing what you did, it just wasn't wise! Most women don't like jumping from man to man, they prefer stable and secure relationships and so they stay with the one they love hoping he'll make things legal between them. Some men just don't understand that it's in the core of a woman's nature to be in a stable relationship. That's another topic for a later time! I'll say this, it comes down to one thing and one thing only, "IS HE READY", anything less than yes, your only wasting your time. As a man, I know who I want to marry, when that women comes along that makes me want to foresake all others and disregard all my other options, that's it, it's a sealed deal! We're going to see somebody and we're going to make our thang official! ( excuse the slang ) Here's some advice! Ask that million dollar question and save your self alot of wasted time! " Where do you see yourself in the next year or two? " If he aint saying anything that would lead you to believe that he's wanting to settle down with someone, then you may want to thank him for his time a keep it moving! If he starts saying, " I want to give up my apartment and look for a bigger place or a house." " I'm looking to meet someone, while getting to know her and with the hopes of starting a serious relationship" " The dating scene is played out, I'm after something permanent! " When you find a guy talking like that, then there's a strong chance that he's willing to work towards the goal of getting married. When a man has his mind locked on a woman and his heart set on her, anything other than what he trully wants, is just an obstacle for him to go around or over! If you don't FEEL in your soul that you are the object of his heart's desire, then maybe it's because, YOU'RE NOT! I close with a quote from my grand-mama, " child, it's NO SHAME if your not "THE ONE" but it's TRIFLING when you're "ONE of the MANY!" LOL
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 06 Apr 09
@ Salsassin - I hear ya man! LOL I don't see it eitheir. From the way it looks Afro Women from other ethnicities have no problems finding mates from among blk men, despite what is said about the shortage of desirable blk men out there. I'm at my whits end trying to figure this out. White, Hispanic, Native American, Philippino, even Pacific Islander women have to problem meeting and marrying blk men. I'm not talking about the CEO but a avergage JOE. I'm yet to find out what is it that these women see that blk women don't see? I hear sisters say, "I wont settle for "any man" just for the sake of having a man!" The question I ask is, did these women settle for anything less than a man that would love, respect them and go out everyday and try his best to make a living? Lord knows, I know that many of us (blk men) are not fit for marraige at the present because we got serious issues to deal with and over come. I want to know why are those that are capable of properly functioning in a relationship or marriage, why are they not being selected by blk women but by women of other ethnicities? If the statistics are correct and more blk men marry within their ethnic group, what's the hoopla about!
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Salsassin says:Posted: 06 Apr 09
I really am curious what the marriage trends of other Afrodiasporic/African women are in contrast to that of African American women. I just don't see Afro-Latinas really having this much of an issue with marriage. Or that much of a perception that there is an issue to be explored.
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Salsassin says:Posted: 06 Apr 09
The man that is not a Vegan. :) I might like my milk, but I also love my steak. I joke, I joke. I get what you mean.
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 06 Apr 09
I haven't read Steve Harvey's book yet, but I bet he was saying what blk grandmothers and mothers had been saying for years to their daughters, " what man will buy a cow if he can get the milk free" ! I think many of those old school words of wisdom fell on deaf ears.
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Jazie says:Posted: 06 Apr 09I encourage all my sistah's...black, white or other wise to pick up a copy of Steve Harvey's book. Prior to reading that book some of my comments may have been miss directed. Now I feel we have to take responsibility for that fact that "black women" aren't getting married. Although there maybe a percentage of black women that make the choice not to marry, there is a larger percentage that want to get married just like other women from different races. I was involved in two long term relationships...one of which resulted in a child. At the beginning of both of those relationships I was certain it would end in marriage. Needless to say neither of them did because I didn't have the courage to ask for what I wanted...I settled. I allowed both men in my situation to make empty promises and basically play house. I never understood why until I read the book.
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Toree18 says:Posted: 31 Mar 09I agree with you NOPLAYER to an extent. I can only speak from my own experiences. I knew a man exactly the way you described above, he thought he was going to be physically, and financially dependent on my income and needless to say he's still in New England living with his Mother where I met him and that's been at least 10 yrs. ago. I chose to raise my children as a single Mother, because I divorced their Father when the youngest was still in diapers. See, I don't believe in staying with a "piece" of a man just to say you have one, I'm not a piece of a woman. Plus, I didn't want my children growing up nervous because they had to listen and watch me and their Dad fighting and arguing all the time, it wasn't worth it to me. As far as over coddling/babying my son, he was 9 yrs. old and had a job as a newspaper carrier. Every morning; rain, sleet, or snow he was up at 4;00 am loading up his bike to go throw his newspapers. So, I really don't think that was a future sign of him being lazy and triffling. Alot of his little friends would still be asleep at 4:00 am, and they wouldn't think of getting a little job before or after school. I wouldn't have even thought of raising my children to be dependent on anyone; my daughters are included. Both of my daughters are grown and have their own families, and neither one of them are lazy and dependent on their husbands. That's where I don't agree with you NOPLAYER, I think that rule should also go for girls. Teach your daughters to be independent and not to have to rely on a man to take care of them. It's great if they can find a husband like you described above, but realistically the odds are against it. Daughters need to be taught to be self sufficient also. Our Black girls already come from good stock, their fore-mothers were strong women__so half the battle for them is already won. All the mothers now have to do is refine it.
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 31 Mar 09
Toree18 I'm sure some of us can be good fathers but some of us forget that you have to protect boys from themselves. Boys are inquisitive by nature and they have a little dare devil in them so you have to keep them busy doing something constructive. Lord knows I'm sorry to hear of your loss and I say these from the heart. I was making a point that life will be hard on your sons as adults, maybe alot harder than you ever were and by over protecting them and spoiling them you handicap them. When boxers get ready for a fight they hire sparring partners to give them a taste of what it will be like during the real fight. Combat drill instructors expose soldiers to the conditions of combat so when the real thing hits them it will not be a shock to them. The realities of life has many of our men shell shocked, if you would. Because they were not exposed to some of the realities that awaited them in adulthood as children or young adults. As a result many can't deal with reality so they look for an escape through drugs, excessive sex and other means to get away for a few minutes. I know parenting is a two person job but I'm saying this to women that have for some reason or another found themselves doing this job alone, when it comes to your sons, don't overly mother them so when they leave your home they go out looking for another mother as grown men. When you listen to blk women complain about blk men what are some of the things they say, " they're childish, lazy, don't want to work, selfish and they get mad when things don't go their way"! These are child-like behaviors being acted out by so-called grown men. Somewhere along the way these child-like tendencies where not curtailed as the they grew older. As a mother you have to teach these boys of yours what's acceptable and what's not and you groom him as if he was the young man that you would want to marry your own daughter. Give him a small does of what awaits him when he leaves your home. Teach him to manage his money, make him be responsible for his actions, make him be respectful of women, make him clean up behind himself. Do whatever you got to do to prepare him for whats out there because if not he'll more than likely look for some silly woman to take over where you left off. There's enough of these types running around as it is!
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 31 Mar 09
I was making a point that life will be hard on your sons as adults, maybe alot harder than you ever were and by over protecting them and spoiling them you handicap them. When boxers get ready for a fight they hire sparring partners to give them a taste of what it will be like during the real fight. Combat drill instructor expose soldiers to the conditions of combat so when the rela thing hits them it will not be a shock to them. The realities of life has many of our men shell shocked, if you would. Because they were not exposed to some of the realities that awaited them in adulthood as children. As a result many can't deal with reality so they look for an escape through drugs, excessive sex and other means to get away for a few minutes. I know parenting is a two person job but I'm saying to women that have for some reason or another found themselves doing this job alone, when it comes to your sons, don't overly mother them so when they leave your home they go out looking for another mother as grown men. When you listen to blk women complain about blk men what are some of the things they say, " he's childish, lazy, don't want to work, he's selfish and he gets mad when things don't go his way"! These are child-like behaviors being acted out by so-called grown men. Somewhere along the way these child-like tendencies where not curtailed as the they grew older. As a mother you have to teach these boys of your what's acceptable and what's not and you groom him as if he was the young man that you would want to marry your daughter. Give him a small does of what awaits him when he leaves your home. Teach him to manage his money, make him be responsible for his actions, make him be respectful of women, make him clean up behind himself. Do whatever you got to do to prepair him for whats out there because if not he'll more than likely look for some silly woman to take over where you left off. Black woman have enough of this
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 30 Mar 09
Excuse my last post, I somehow lost my spacing.
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 30 Mar 09
Dawnshyne - I knew I could depend on you for some instant feed back! LOL The situation with my friend and his ex-wife is she's doing the same thing my aunt did with her son, my friend said his son's mother still makes his bed for him and cleans his room. When he didn't get selected for the soccer team, to help him deal with his disappointment she went out and bought him some expensive video game and told him he don't have to play with no soccer team.Instead of telling him, " son stop feeling sorry for yourself and go out there an keep practicing until you get better and keep trying out for other teams until you make a team but don't quit!"This woman was "over doing" what mother's do and that's comfort their children, if she keeps this up this boy will turn into one sorry ass adult.This is the reason my friend is upset with his ex-wife. He did fight for custody because over spoiling a child doesn't make a mother un-fit.Dawnshne your question, " why do some men look for women who are totally dependant on them? "I'm sure most men don't want a women that depends on them for their every need, this woman would be a burdon. Men tend to avoid women who are too needy ( emotionally or financialy).You have men who like their women to be a little needy, just enough to let them know that they're important and they do play a role in her life.I like a woman that's not good at repairing things because thats my area of expertiece and I like that she'll call on me to keep things in working order. Sad to say it, you do have men that will use a woman's dependency on him as a means of control. If he supplies her every need, then she has no more power than a child, in reality.I have control over my daughter because I feed, clothe and house them, so due to their dependency on me I have a right to excercise certain ammount of control over them.
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Toree18 says:Posted: 30 Mar 09
NOPLAYER, I was a single mother of 3 two daughters and a son, and he was my baby too. Not all of us are like your aunt or your friends ex-wife. I would give anything to have my son back here with me. When he became 11 he wanted to live with his absent father. I didn't have a problem with it, because for much as I loved him and taught him everything a Mother could possibly teach her son, I couldn't teach him how to be a man. I let him go live with his Father; I think you mentioned we have a tendency to smother and baby our sons, well NOPLAYER, my "BABY" was only with his Father for 7 mos. and he was gone. The entire 11 yrs. he lived with me, he never had anything more serious than a skinned knee, but after 7 mos. he lost his life with his Father all because his Father thought he was being a "good" Father by letting my son go and do anything. So, not all of us want to keep our sons from their Fathers. The question is; are the Fathers capable of really being a good Father?
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Dawnshyne says:Posted: 26 Mar 09
Sorry to piggyback, NoPlayer, but this struck a cord with me. I am not a mother but I concur with you about the sorry state of affairs with respect to single parent households. It is not simply black households either, I hazard a guess that there is not a woman on this site who has not had to deal with a man incapable of making decisions or standing on his own because life has simply come too easy for him and this was done at the hands of his parents....not one; both. The way I see it, it takes two to tango and while a woman may spoil, coddle and baby, most times there is a man allowing this behavior to occur; either by his absence or by tacit agreement (I am not counting men who are unable to be present because of death). For instance, has your friend filed for custody of his son? If she is breaking his spirit as a man; wouldn't you agree it is his responsibility first and foremost to the child to fight for it? Like I said, I am not a parent so I could be off base. I look forward to what women have to say. And while we are on the point... To be fair there are women of the same ilk but for some reason (generalization warning) men seem to revere instead of reject that as a trait in a woman. Why is that? Why when choosing a mate; a man will choose someone seemingly totally dependent upon him, someone looking for someone to do what her parents did and take care of her? How can she teach your children something she has no concept of which is independence? How can she participate in raising a strong, viable member of society when she has no experience to that end? Popping popcorn and waiting patiently...
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 26 Mar 09
" Tell The Truth and Shame The Devil " Yesterday I was on the receiving end of a verbal beatdown from four sisters at a friends house. Somehow we ended up on the topic of blk relationships and they tore into blk men from the start. These women showed no mercy, I mean they went for throat. I tried my best to listen and see things from their stand point but all I came up with was blame and more blame. The generalizations were sickening, a few nuts defined all blk men as far as they were concerned. As always during these types of debates I admit to the short comings of alot of our men and confess our sins because it's true that we've made a mess of things. I asked what role did BLK WOMEN play in this mess and these women looked at me like I was the Anti Christ. Ok' lets deal ! After 1975 a large majority of blk males were reared by their mothers mainly due to divorce but for other reason as well. Alot of these men were raised without a father in the house. If you want to talk about how sorry and lazy blk men are, let's ask the question, who raised them? If blk women want someone to blame for the condition of the men, that many of them would look to marry, take a good look at the women who raised them. Hell, I'll use a woman from my on family. My aunt has ruined her son. She spoiled him from day one and his two older sisters didn't make things better. Nothing was to good for her baby, she made life too easy for him. He can't deal with disappointment, he gets fustrated too easily, he is selfish as hell and he likes to manipulate women. He's 27 years old and he goes after older lonely women, these women are his sugar mamas. They feed clothe, house him, and makes his car payments. I doubt he ever worked a job longer than 4 months before he quit or got fired. He knows he can fall back on his mama or these silly women. Where did he learn this shit from ? His father didn't teach him this. When his step father tried to break him of his self centered ways and teach him responsibility, his mama came to his rescue. I know of a few cases where men have left the home because their wives allowed their children to play a game of divide and conqure. Is it any wonder why these men don't want to work a job and they want a woman to take care of them? As a mother if you're maxing out your credit cards to keep your son dressed in the latest fashions but you wont make his sorry ass get a job, what are you teaching him and how are you grooming him to be the man that some sister would want by her side? Lord knows alot of our men are in bad shape but blk women have to bear their fair share of the blame for this as well. My friend's ex wife is doing this to their son and he's begged her to let him raise their son but she say's he still needs his mother. This boy is 12 soon to be 13 and he still needs his mama? Woman get real! She knows my friend will put a foot to this boy's ass and force him to straighten up and she couldn't bear the thought of her baby being unhappy. You would think, as many blk men that don't want the responsibilties of being a father, when you find one wanting to take charge of a wayward son, women would step aside to let a father do his job. Ladies I want to hear from you because this is a serious issue that we must confront if we're to even think of cleaning this mess. This issue has an impact on why some blk women are not married. Lord knows I'm not attacking blk mothers because I know the double load you carry on your back, so don't feel I'm " going there " because I'm not. I want to hear from you !
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fearlesscrus says:Posted: 20 Mar 09Laugh_sailor, thank you very much. You hit the nail on the head and drove it righton throug the board. All I can add is my own personal experience: Last month, I asked a black woman I've dated for 5 years to marry me, but she said, "Not right now." The rest of her answer, unsaid verbally, was, "I haven't finished sowing my wild oats yet and I want to see how many young black studs I can have sex with even though they can't support me and don't have half the brains I have." And VA SongBird thinks women mature faster than men? I've never seen any evidence of it.
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homesteader says:Posted: 15 Mar 09
mlt35 , Tis ' I that am write Ting a Novel . This site is the inspiration point that started me on this Venture . I have Learned alot that will go with the Flow of my title " Other Peoples Business as I see it " . A book written about the civilization of Men and Women from far away places . Who in their own ways are all similiar in everyday Life . Patterned after the Lack of colors , With the exception of the Cover which will be my Favorite - Bright Yellow .
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mlt35 says:Posted: 15 Mar 09Hello James, Long time no hear! Great to hear that you are keeping the communication lines open between men and women. Hello VA_songbird and homesteader also. James, How is the book concept coming? Please bring us up to speed.....:) M
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Bantu09 says:Posted: 21 Feb 09
Wow! I have read most of the blogs very interesting comments. I will say this though statistics aside, meeting a person willing to settle down and accept you for who you are is much more difficult than it was in the past. Chivalry is gone it's like men have forgotten how to treat women and women do not demand neither require this of their partners. Another thing the choice of who you want to date and eventually marry is your business. If an AA woman prefers a white man like most of the women on this site seem to be then so be it, whatever reason drove that desire is really not up for debate. Because our reaction to things in life stems from an experience and the governing factor is a deep desire not to experience the same hurtful and painful experience. Or simply put the heart wants what it wants :-). Is this a good interracial online dating site?
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homesteader says:Posted: 17 Feb 09
It takes a Good man to make a Good woman feel wanted and when you become this Good man , she will show her appreciation of your actions . I Believe for a couple to see what changes in Personal Attitudes are possible do come from being together in their everyday conversations with each other , because each wants to make the other Smile / This I will call part of becoming an Adult . Marriage is the joining of two people who have the Desire to grow together in Life . As opposites Attract is what I have always heard . Finding fault in anyone before / you have taken the time to get to know them is part of ones own Faults . We have been forged bye history [ it was not always Nice ] - has it now became time to Forge our lives by the Future and Enjoy the History that we are creating .
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 17 Feb 09
erinfl14 it may be hard to find a good man but he's out there some where, believe it or not. Sometimes you have to THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. Often times we set our requirements a certain way and we stick to them but that may be the very thing that's hurting your chances of finding that special someone. I started dating women that I ruled out at first, single mothers and older women and it really made a difference. I know a guy that married a women he was pen pals with while she was in prison and now they've been married 5 years and have two kids. They're doing good and they're happy. Years back I would not have considered these women as possible romantic interest but now I find single mothers attractive because most are unselfish and caring. Older or mature women, or the ones I've meet are comfortable in their on skin and they're open for love. I'm sure a woman that has served time in prison wouldn't be judgemental or stuck up. I stated these example so show that love can be found if only we STOP LOOKING and START TO SEE.
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erinfl14 says:Posted: 15 Feb 09
I don't know if I agree. I am 24 years old and I dream of getting married to the man of my dreams and having children. I know plenty of single black women who want to get married but find it diffcult to find a good man. These tend to be my friends that do not want to date outside their race!
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 09 Feb 09
Ladies you are so right, you can't repair men or make them whole, no matter how much you love them, you just can't do it. I know it's hard because by nature women are very maternal and they what to nurture and comfort those they love. As mother you can only do so much and a time comes when you have to stop mothering your son and let his father or some other male figure take over. Ladies the one thing you can do for a man is inspire him. It's all about you! Don't you know????? The power is with you. Look at how we as little boys tried to impress you by acting tough, brave and strong. If I'd charged one dollar for every bag of trash I'd taken out for a woman as a kid, I'd be a rich man! LOL Ladies there's something about you that drives us to do the things that'll win us your affection. A good woman with the right spirit can motivate a man like no else can. M e personaaly, woman have made the biggest impact on my life within the last ten years. " Well James if that's so, why I'm I catching all of this hell from men! " " Where did I go wrong! " No my friend, it's where did WE go wrong? Ok, let's go back to when you and I were around 12 or 14 years old. You and I had a relationship that was pure and platonic. It was intimacy at it's best, sex had no part in this because we were not having sex at that time, we were just kids. We could talk about our problems, our dreams and there was a felling that we trully loved eachohter. But something happened! What? The discovery of your sexuality and my attraction to it! When you physicaly developed and found out that guys would do things for you just to get close to you, you change on me. When I developed an attraction to you, I no longer saw you as that little girlfriend of mine, I saw you as a woman that had something, that I wanted. What happen was we both learned the art of manipulation, " using what you got, to get what you want." I began to measure my worth by how I could attract you and keep you, the sexier you were the better I felt about myself. My friends looked at me in a whole knew light because of you. When I lost you to someone you thought could or would do more for you, that's when I started to believe that maybe, good guys don't finish first. So I had to learn this game of manipulation if I hoped to attract you. I couldn't trust you so I felt I had to get over on you, before you got over on me! Sad to say it, this game didn't stop when we became adults, we just refined the technic even more. We got degrees, joined fraternities or sororitites , established careers, and a long list of other things to help us advertise what we had for sale. Now I've grown angry at you, I feel that you've let me down, you've turned your back on me and it's no secrete that you feel the same way about me. What happened to us, we used to be so close ? Ok snap out of it! I took this trip down memory lane because I know I'm not the only one that's been there. I mentioned this because when you think back on it, this was the turning point for relationships between alot of men and women. This is why I say the disappoint and the hurt is on both sides and you can't fully place blame on either side because we're both acting a condition that's affecting not only relationships on this site but the country as a whole.
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VA_SongBird says:Posted: 09 Feb 09
Two of my favorite people NO PLAYER and MLT35 have put it down quite well. It is about wholeness. I must be willing as Bishop Jakes says, to deal with the "enemy" in-ner me. Only you know your issues and only you can be the first to address them with God's help. Agree, after a certain point, most adults don't have time fix other adults. Our pride tends to get in the way, and we end up resenting the person trying to help us. Love thyself is the greatest rule of life. It is only then, you can extend yourself and enhance the life of someone else.
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mlt35 says:Posted: 08 Feb 09
Hi NO PLAYER. I could not have re-directed the crux of the problem any better.....and you being an African American man are more than qualified to re-direct the blog back to the topic of why black women are dating non-black men ......but as you see no other blac kmen have felt o.k about participating...of course they all know, and live the same reality everyday as well as why soo many of their black women are seeking love outside of our race....because of social issues which you mentioned, we dont have time to heal a man's soul and help to make him whole emotionally alot of times. Life itself is challenging and to add a man who is unhealthy emotionally will make your life and a relationship with him toxic and unhealthy no matter how much we may love him. He has to take steps first to recognize and admit that there is or have been problems with lets say dad or lack there of and subconsously pass insecurity lack of confidence etc,onto the woman that he says he loves. Do you see the problem. Love alone cannot fix this. 2 people have to come together emotionally whole or at the very least be very self aware of your own issues, take ownership of them and when you connect with a man or woman let them know what challenges that you bring into the relationship and hopefully both people can communicate, open up emotionally and let the other person into your heart and life and maybe have chance at happiness. Of course many of us assumed that we would meet, fall in love and marry someone that looked like us....but unfortunately in todays world this is not reality for many of us. I love good black men, but will not accept foolishness nor play the games that many of our brothers have learned as if they went to receive an advanced educational degree on how to get over on, manipulate, use and abuse their very own women, but if someone tries to treat their daughters, sisters or mothers the very same way they are prepared to defend.....isn't this insanity in action......? Remember....belief determines reality. M
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 03 Feb 09
mlt35 I didn't see it as a strike at me because our issues are out there for all to see. Me and some guys at work were talking and asking questions as to how things got to this point and I remebered reading on a church's billboard in North St. Louis, " It's Easier To Raise Children, Than Repair Adults" ! Next to GOD, a person has no greater friend than a mother but without a father having a strong influence in a childs life, that child will not have proper balance. Once again we're back to the men! You can't replace a father no more than you can replace a mother, both are vital to a child's developement. "And ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the admonishment of the Lord." Ephesians 6:4 While we were talking few admitted that they were afraid of young blk men. Never in our history have we ever been afraid of our own sons. The children that many of us produced and left out there alone have now grown up angry at the world and some of them are killing us ! How do you help put a stop to this madness ? You must start with RELATIONSHIPS, first with yourself, then with your mate and then with your children ( should you have any). Then and only then will you be able to start cleaning up this mess. This whole article was about why many blk woman are not marrying or married. It's my own belief ( mine and mine alone ). The condition of the men that blk women would normally select mates from, have impacted their decisions to marry. Now interracial dating is an after option, and I say that because most blk woman as girls, dream of marrying someone that looks like them. I just knew as a little boy, me and Thelma Evans ( "Good Times" ) were ment to be ! LOL So, once again we're back to the men. Sad to say it, when we catch a cold our women often end up with pneumonia ! James
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mlt35 says:Posted: 31 Jan 09
NO PLAYER Good to hear that you take the criticism and not take it too personal:):) We are all here to learn and grow......right:):)
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homesteader says:Posted: 30 Jan 09
I totally agree with NOPLAYER . It is rediculous to blame a race , a class or a sex of people . First look ar ourselves , examine the way we look at others through our own eyes and if we act negatively / change to a positive way of acting . I am able only to speak about a small part of the world in which We live . Seems every town within 60 miles of our house has its' own new prison . Housing Criminals of all colors and cultures - needless to say it costs people more to house and feed them than the majority of familys of people earn in a years time . Is this not a problem of great importance to all . My father taught me years ago that it was a Richmans War and a poormans fight . Let's look to our new gov't as promise has been made for change and made serious changes within ourselves if that is what is needed also . We all need to work together if anything shall get done .
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 30 Jan 09
Ann or fvb? There's no need to beat a dead horse. Many of us know we've falling short and thank GOD many of us are talking and working towards finding solutions to the problems we face. I find it encouraging that we can sit down and really open up about the things that effect us. Often times men are so competitive and driven that we don't form the friendships that allow us to express what we feel. Many of us have forgotten the power of THE CONGREGATION, the coming together and the drawing of inspiration from the unique gifts that God has given to each of us. You can tell the condition of THE MAN, when you look at the condition of THE WORLD around him. What shape is THE WORLD in around you ??? The disrespect of women, the abuse of children, the disregard for family life and the disrespect for the union of marriage cuts across all racial lines. It looks as if more than BLACK MEN need to get their acts together ! You can't even think of changing the world until, you change yourself, so you work on you and I'll continue to work on me and hopefully, together we'll go out and do our part to help clean up this mess! Best wishes, James
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fvb says:Posted: 30 Jan 09
@ No Player...dont't you think it is passed time that most bm get their acts together.
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fvb says:Posted: 30 Jan 09
@ No Player, dont't you think it is passed time that bm get their acts together.
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ann says:Posted: 30 Jan 09
@ No Player, dont't you think it is passed time that bm get their acts together.
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homesteader says:Posted: 27 Jan 09
Believe in Love and you will see it come True , Love Les
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NOPLAYER says:Posted: 27 Jan 09
Dawnshyne, thanks for your response. First let me state that there are serious challenges within, not only blk relationship but in American as a whole. Look at the divorce statistics. Pre-maritual conselling is big business now days and the business cards of good divorce attorneys are handed out along with marriage certificaites! Ok, I'm pushing it a bit ! " LOL " I'm sure both of us agree that marriage, as an institution in this country is in bad shape. "your posts of emotionally handicapped (and assumingly guiltless by reason of that) BM and your kind offer to assist women in learning the id with the man." Please don't confuse my ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of the problem, as an attemp to EXCUSE the problem. Acknowledgment is the first step towards solving a problem. Well, what's the problem ? As blk men some of us, NOT ALL OF US, are having problems establishing or maintaining loving relationships. Ok, now we've admitted that there's a problem, lets see how we can get to the heart of these issues. Believe it are not, SOME of us want healthy relationships with our women, so we're doing away with the finger pointing and making excuses as a reason for not making needed change. Some of us can open up better when talking to other men about issues of the heart but it does no good if the women that most of us want, never hear it. I'm only trying to get men to talk to women and the mere fact you and I are talking and not attacking eachother, is proof that we seek to understand eachother. When we attemp to understand eachother, even if we disagree, we don't become condemning and judgmental. Just knowing that you see my point of veiw worthy of a response, is reason enough to continue reaching out to you, instead of turning away from you. Dawnshyne if more men and women would try to do, what you and I are doing, relationships and marriages wouldn't be in the condition that we find them in. So, let's keep talking ! James
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mlt35 says:Posted: 27 Jan 09
NO PLAYER Thank you again for your enlightened view that as we started some hundreds of blog posts ago are meant to foster dialogue and positive communication between men and women and particularly black men and black women. Nice book title idea..... Another thought for a book title could be ..."Lets keep talkng til we get it right "( An open dialogue between men and women).:):). As for the comment about feeling the need to want your Daddy is real cool too. Not many men can open up and share the way that you have shared. It is refreshing to see a man who has started down the road of self- discovery and able tap into real, natural emotions....real sweet:) We all want our dads at different times.....for no reason at all. Ever written him a letter expressing your feeling at the time? Obviously he is no longer with us, but maybe it may help you to feel better or have some closure to what ever it is that you are feeling. Many times WE do not even know. Ladies: Life has taught me not to be so quick to disregard another's feelings. They are real whether or not WE get it or feel it or understand it. Glad to see women jumping on the bandwagon of the topic at hand with some opinions after a couple hundred blogs. No Player Germany is one of my favorite countries! Hope that you enjoy it there. Munchen, Lichtenstein, Rhine River, stoic riverside castles, Hoffbra house, Dacau, Romantic Road, October Fest, man is that a nice memory:). Dankie. Anyway......nice to see that a 6 foot, 240 lb. man can express his emotions.....I want my mommy......just kidding:):):) Hope that you are smiling also. I lived abroad for 5 years also and can relate to living in 2- 3 time zones, several currencies, celsius, euro, deutchmarc, metric yeahhhhhh. I am beginning to see why you are like a hyper male of sorts. Anyway, enjoy....... Chat with you soon! Remember....belief determines reality. M
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Dawnshyne says:Posted: 27 Jan 09
Backround ( as you have described it ) has nothing to do with a man’s ability to appreciate and love a woman. Men from the worst backgrounds are capable of loving women. With all due respect I have to disagree. Although human beings are blessed with the great ability to learn; without having previous knowledge of a subject, how do you expect to know? I have never said that this "nature versus nurture" argument is reserved for "us", however I refer to the roughly 200 some-odd posts made before mine that led to your posts of emotionally handicapped (and assumingly guiltless by reason of that) BM and your kind offer to assist women in learning the id with the man. Look every one has things in their lives that has led to scars and more than likely a skewed view of the world surrounding them. Like a lot of others I was blessed but not unscathe; but my question is when does one choose to learn from their past? Their upbringing? Their very existence and instead of allowing it to be a hindrance to their future be a propellant? I know wonderful people (black, white, hispanic, asian) who have taken the knocks and bruises in life and not allowed it to shade their future. I volunteer with cancer patients and the strength I see reflected in the eyes of young people who have been all but given a death sentence is inspiring...then seeing resignation on the faces of others who live the excuse; well that is sickening. It’s nobody’s job to do anything, that they don’t want to do. You give ” YOUR LOVE ” to the one that’s proven he’s worthy of it. I ascribe to my earlier comments where one fully expects other human beings to be capable of the emotion. The disconnect comes into play when one or another party is not privy to "events" that may have been devoid of the feeling or the feeling was twisted to be ugly. Men are as they are; it is never a woman's place to learn them. Boys are malleable, men are not to be. That was what I was alluding to but feel free to interpret as you see fit. With all due respect, what you may call blame, others might call it diagnosis, trouble shooting or looking for the cause behind the effect! Like your high blood pressure, a diagnosis leads to change...is that what you are witnessing today? I ask the question for a very real answer because I think that if we had all these enlightened, thoughtful and forward thinking PEOPLE, then this conversation would be moot.
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Very interesting blog,from the point of veiw of a middle aged white male,lets see,1 human love knows no race or group it has to do with,connecting with the thing inside the shell.2 there are many forms of love,from being just friends, to the most profound,soul love for all of mankind.3 We exist in eternal oneness with our selves,ownly on for a few seconds do we know what it is to be happy,most of life involes pain.4 the human body,vir the fact that it is matter,leads to delusion of truth, we seek something that cant be obtained.4 love can not exist in human form, AS THE BOOK PUTS IT,J C WEPT FOR MAN,he did not weep for himself, for what is immortal life dos not fear dead, supernatural power is not human mortal, fear dead,there fore his love is not of the putrid flesh,THE HIGHESS LOVE IS NOT OF THIS EARTH,BUT CAN OWNLY BE FOUND,IN THE ACT OF DEATH ITSELF.therefore be careful how you live your life, and how you decide to die.